The American pushback against wokeness really took off after the Bud Light-Dylan Mulvaney controversy. But how did that partnership even happen? How did the working man’s beer go work? Glenn speaks with Bud Light insider Anson Frericks, who is the former president of Anheuser-Busch Sales & Distribution Co. and saw the company’s culture shift firsthand. He lays it out in his new book, “Last Call for Bud Light.” And he tells Glenn that the driving force behind the wokeness wasn’t business data or the will of customers. It was major shareholders like BlackRock, who pushed the World Economic Forum’s Great Reset principles. So, now that Trump is pushing back against the ”ESG Industrial Complex,” he argues, many CEOs are abandoning these failed policies.
Transcript
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Anson Frericks, I think I have his name right. He's the author of a new book called Last Call for Bud Light.
He was -- he is the Strive asset manager cofounder. He is with Vivek Ramaswamy.
He has written a great book that I think everybody should read. Anson, welcome to the program!
ANSON: Thanks for having me this morning, Glenn. Really excited to be on the show.
GLENN: Oh, you bet. Your book is fascinating. It's a great, great business book. To kind of get into how a great brand is built. And how it's dismantled. And how it went horribly, horribly wrong.
ANSON: Yeah. You know, Glenn, it's really interesting.
If you think about all the pushback on ESG and DEI, and really just, in my mind, it really started with the collapse of Bud Light.
That's when I think you had all these regular, everyday folks that were saying, man, you know, you act like you did not like when the NFL and all the players kneeling. Yeah, I hated it when Disney got involved in the parental rights issues. But, man, when Bud Light, which is the working man, everyday citizen beer, when all of a sudden, they're promoting Dylan Mulvaney, and everything going on with Dylan Mulvaney, that's when I think people said enough is enough. They stopped buying the beer.
Customers left by the millions. The stock price cratered. It's crazy that they still haven't figured out, and there hasn't been a comeback at all.
GLENN: You know, I wrote a book a few years ago, about The Great Reset.
ANSON: Yeah.
GLENN: And how that was changing everything. And all of these companies would be beholden, not to you, the consumer, but would be beholden to people like BlackRock. And as I'm reading your book, I'm like, yes. Yes.
I can't believe how right we were. Because that's really what seemed to have happened. The culture changed. You moved from St. Louis to New York.
You started caring about BlackRock. Not the consumer.
And you were there, watching this happening, knowing what was coming. Or at least it seems that you really kind of knew what was coming.
ANSON: Yeah. No. Absolutely. And, Glenn, you were ahead of everybody on this. With the Great Reset, the phenomenal book on your end. And seeing what's happening. When you have the World Economic Forum. Klaus Schwab, and all these individuals that were pushing more for this European form of corporate governance. Stakeholder capitalism. Companies. They're supposed to create value for all stakeholders. Which is very distinct. For the American -- Milton Friedman view of the world, that said, you have to put the shareholders first, and you have to do what's right for the shareholders, which is create products, services, that actually create more sustainable businesses.
But as many corporations over the last five to ten years adopted this Klaus Schwab, European fake order view, which was foisted on them by the BlackRock world, who were taking money from very progressive pension funds in California, in New York, and in European sovereign wealth funds. We saw this as the least sustainable thing that a business can do. Is try to get involved in all these political and social issues.
GLENN: Right.
ANSON: To fracture your customer base. It's bad.
GLENN: Was that something that you think these business leaders actually believed in? Or were they just saying, hey, it's a new world. And everybody has to do this. Or we're not going to get the money from the banks.
And we're not going to get the funding that we need, et cetera, et cetera.
ANSON: Yeah. I don't think many of these people believed in these programs. But unfortunately, they were foisted by them, by the black rocks. The state streets. And the Vanguards.
They're the single largest shareholders in most of these companies. And then you have this whole ESG industrial complex, built around this.
McKinsey. One of the most influential management consulting companies, had their diversity matters. Diversity wins.
DEI studies, that told companies that they needed to improve their DEI. And, of course, they could hire McKinsey for millions of dollars to figure out how to do that. You had the human rights, which is this activist non-profit organization, that started scoring companies. You know, you talk a lot about the social credit scores. Human rights campaigns are doing to the companies that's shaming them, if they didn't have the right transgender policies in place. If they didn't have the right amount of advertising to the LGBTQ+ community. I mean, there was this whole complex that was built up.
That's why I think you were starting to see a lot of CEOs backtrack on these policies. They had nothing to do with actually creating more value for the shareholders, or actually promoting the business.
It was all about promoting the political agenda. I think most of them didn't want to believe in, but they were most compelled and forced to do over the last couple of years.
GLENN: So the Bud Light, you know, the end of, I think, I agree with you, the end of ESG. At least not -- at least the end of it being the knee-jerk reaction of, no. Of course, we have to have transgender people in every commercial.
The end of that, yeah. I'm reading your book, last night.
And I'm like, okay.
I think maybe -- maybe we've hit the end of this. Maybe this is the beginning of looking back and saying, look how insane all of this was.
Are we on sure footing now, leaving that time period? Or is it still a real lurking danger?
ANSON: No. I think the pendulum is definitely swinging back. You really see businesses dividing in two camps. You have certain companies that have realized, that these policies have failed. And they want to get back to the bottom line. You've seen companies like Meta and Walmart and Tractor Supply Company and a bunch of other people that hold back their programs. But then you have companies that are more in progressive cities. I mean, Costco has doubled down. Costco is based out of Seattle. They're doubling down on their DEI programs.
You have other companies, and I talk about this a lot. But even Anheuser-Busch, which is owned by a Belgium corporation called InBev, that they haven't necessarily publicly backed down. It's just the company that lost the most from this whole movement. And they still haven't publicly backtracked, even though a lot of their American counterparts have. Because, again, they are owned by a European company that promotes more of these -- more of these values. And I think that's where you're starting to see this divide.
And the companies that continue to hold on for to, I think the DEI and ESG philosophies are going to continue to fall behind their American counterparts.
GLENN: So how much of a role did just being out of step, with the Bud Light customer. How much of that played a role before ESG. I mean, if you don't understand the Clydesdales. You don't -- you don't get Budweiser. Would you agree with that?
ANSON: You know, 100 percent, I think there was a dangerous cocktail that was mixing for almost ten years at Anheuser-Busch. And we kind of found this firsthand. So going back, Anheuser-Busch was created by an American family, by the Busch family. It was taken over by a European company called InBev in 2008. And InBev was based in Belgium, and then it was also run by a couple of Brazilian individuals. And they came here to the US. And over 5 years, really dismantled what Anheuser-Busch was.
Even including in the year 2015, they moved the corporate headquarters from St. Louis to Missouri.
And they thought they couldn't have the right talent in -- in -- in St. Louis. They couldn't attract the right people. Even though, St. Louis, Missouri, they had great talent that built this company, essentially the world's largest beer company.
GLENN: Oh, yeah, Anheuser-Busch, St. Louis, Missouri. You heard that your life.
ANSON: That's it. So they moved from the epicenter, away from the middle of the country.
Where there's always a saying -- you know, generally placed for American. Peoria, Illinois, is very close to St. Louis. You have all of a microcosm of the US around there.
Which helps you understand the center of the US.
When you move to New York. You hire New York agencies. New York marketing. New York folks. That has really changed.
I think the outlook of the company, combine that with the rise of really ESG and DEI, which really took off, in that 2015 to 2021, 2022 time frame made for a dangerous cocktail, that they just lost who their customer was. And who that core American beer drinker was.
GLENN: I have to tell you, one of the best parts has nothing to do with ESG, of the book. Is moving the company to New York. Because I moved my company out of New York. But at first I left the -- the headquarters in New York. And the company really split. You know, once a founder leaves, things can go awry quickly. And especially if you're in New York, and the founder is in Texas. And we really had some really tough times, because of that. And I -- you know, businesspeople, I hope they -- I hope they recognize the effect. But in your book, it shows, a company like InBev could not. It didn't get that at all.
ANSON: No. They didn't really get it at all. I saw firsthand, the company changing. You read more about this, in the book last call for Bud Light. One of the things I was frustrated with, especially in the 2020, 2021 time frame, after COVID, after George Floyd. And the company which was this meritocracy. That's what I joined. Hey, if you work hard, you get promoted. And one of the key principles of the company was, we promote based off the results you get. And all of a sudden that principle was changed to, we promote based off the diversity of your team.
Then you sort of have diversity dashboards coming in. To see the diversity of your team. On top of that, we couldn't even just get partnerships done. I thought that made tons of sense.
I talk about this in the book a lot. I tried to do a distribution agreement with Black Rifle Coffee Company. And you probably Black Rifle Coffee company, its mission is to serve culture and coffee to firefighters, first responders, police, people who love America.
But that was too controversial of a partnership in 2021 and early 2022.
GLENN: That's crazy!
ANSON: And for me -- for me, it was kind of our external affairs team in New York. They essentially scuddled this deal based off their own political leanings. I said, guys, the same person drinking a six pack of Budweiser at night is the same person drinking six cups of Black Rifle Coffee Company the next morning.
GLENN: Yes.
ANSON: And what do you mean we can't do a distribution deal, where we're putting the same Black Rifle Coffee cans on the Budweiser trucks? This makes sense for everybody.
But that was too controversial of a partnership. And that's where you saw just that center of gravity, when you're looking at America through the lens of Fifth Avenue in New York, versus St. Louis Missouri, where I think you really lose sight of who your customer is.
GLENN: You know, when you talk about how Bud Light sent that can to Dylan Mulvaney, that may surpass. In fact, I think it does, surpass the boob move of, we've reinvented our recipe. Now it's the new Coke!
I mean, just dumb as a box of rocks. You say, I -- you outline clearly how bad it was for Anheuser-Busch, but the average person, I think would think that Bud Light has kind of recovered, and that's kind of past. But that's not true!
ANSON: No, I mean, it really hasn't.
You know, I get into this in the book a lot. About that same organization, that same sort of external affairs team that canceled that Black Rifle Coffee deal. They were the one that green lit the Dylan Mulvaney partnership.
And unlike the Coca-Cola. Coca-Cola, they were in the state. But what do they do? They took accountability for it? Did they apologize for it?
GLENN: Right.
ANSON: They killed new Coke, I don't know, within a couple of months.
GLENN: Oh, yeah.
ANSON: One of the big problems. You make bad, bone-headed marketing mistakes regularly in business. The real problem here is, yes, the marketing decision was wrong. But even more importantly, the company's response to it is the reason, Glenn. Like sales are still down 40 percent, 50 percent.
They still lost $40 billion of value, and have not recovered before this. Because the company never took responsibility and accountability, and has not made any changes. The same CEO is still there. They still have not come out. They rolled back publicly DEI policies. They haven't apologized to their loyal customer base. And they haven't been able to admit, and say, we screwed up.
And I think part of it is, is because of this kind of European ownership they have. And, you know, my feeling is that they're not going to actually get their Bud Light customers back, no matter how much money they throw at it. Dana White, the ultimate fighting championship, which I think they gave him $100 million. They have Shane Gillis, they have others. Because the real path to redemption, I mean, goes through forgiveness. You know this. But the only way to be forgiven is actually to admit there was a mistake and there was an area. And they have yet to do that. Until they do that, I don't think a lot of these customers are coming back, no matter what marketing you give folks.
GLENN: So the name of the book is last call for Bud Light. The fall and future of America's favorite beer. I need to take a one-minute break and then come back. And I want to talk to you about what does the future look like, and not necessarily for Budweiser.
I mean, you are -- you cofounded strive asset management with Vivek. A good friend and a really smart guy. Who I think has a really bright future. And so you're looking at these companies and trying to find the right companies that align with the values of their customers.
Tell me, the advice that you give for companies, now that are still kind of in this weird zone. What the future looks like. And what is the path forward?
GLENN: If -- if I could catch hope in a jar and put a lid on it. And give it away, I would. Our nation has been far too short on hope. Especially when will it comes to the economy and our personal ways.
Maybe things are finally starting to get better. Maybe we will have more trouble before it gets better. We have a lot of debt we have to pay.
We made a lot of really bad mistakes. But now that we have good leadership in office, you know, it's going to be a little less worrisome, maybe.
A little more hope.
But you are still in charge of your own personal economy.
Here's the hope I can give you. A sincere recommendation to give American Financing a call. Because they work for you, not the bank. They're salaried employees. When they -- when you call them. They will shoot straight with you. Maybe take ten minutes just to get started. And they are saving the average listener of this program, just around an average of, what? $836 a month.
That's like giving yourself a 10,000-dollar raise. That's a little -- that's a little deposit in the hope bank, isn't it? Start today. You might even be able to delay up to two mortgage payments, which can help get you even further ahead.
Don't take my word for it. I always tell you, and I mean it every time. Do your own homework.
Don't take anybody's word for it. You're smart enough to figure out if it's right for you.
American Financing. 800-906-2440. 800-906-2440, or go to AmericanFinancing.net.
Ten-second station ID.
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GLENN: So what do you see as the current situation, and the path forward in the next three to four years, for American companies and brands?
ANSON: Yeah, so it's funny. I left one year before that Dylan Mulvaney partnership, after they wouldn't let me do the Black Rifle Deal.
I saw the company changing from a diversity standpoint. And Vivek and I, we started a company called Strive Asset management. Which was, we were going to invest everyday citizen dollars into businesses and have them be focused once again on meritocracy. Have them be focused on their mission.
Don't necessarily get involved in a lot of political and social issues, like we saw. I was looking Atlanta, Georgia.
If you remember, Glenn, in 2021, when the governor passed the Georgia rights act. You have to have an ID to vote.
And corporate America lost. BlackRock. One of the companies said, we're pushing back against it. Then they kind of compelled Coca-Cola, Delta to get involved in this pushback. And Major League Baseball cancelled the All-Star Game.
In 2021, in Atlanta, over this Georgia voting rights. You need to have an ID to vote. So we saw a lot of these problems happening. And we came out, and we said we're going to start a new asset manager, compete against BlackRock.
Let's have companies just focus on whatever their mission is. Stay out of politics. That will be good for business, because you will not fracture your customer base, and it will be good for our democracy as well. Because we should have individuals -- are the ones that should be deciding what rules they live by, not these secret national organizations or ESG-promoting asset managers. It's funny.
When we originally launched, this is not even a contrarian position. But this was almost like a subversive position 20 years ago. People called us anti-ESG, anti-DEI, anti-woke. I mean, you name it.
GLENN: Anti-everything.
ANSON: Anti-everything, and I said, guys, we are just pro-American, free market shareholder capitalism. That's what we are pro. We are anti-European stakeholder capitalism. We're anti-the World Economic One. We're anti-the European agendas, yes, we are. But we're very much pro-American. Free market shareholder capitalism.
And there are a lot of people that wouldn't even work with us. Marketing agencies wouldn't work with us. People wouldn't engage with us early on.
And it's so funny now, because now three years later, what was a very contrarian idea has become very mainstream, and the pendulum again has swung back for most of corporate America, who has now -- who has now once again been able to focus on the business.
GLENN: I think this is a book for every businessperson, even just someone who has watched Anheuser-Busch through the years. It's an amazing story, and something that every businessman should read, going forward. Last Call for Bud Light. The fall and future of America's favorite beer. Anson, thank you so much. God bless.
ANSON: Thanks, Glenn.